Sue Carter
November 14, 2019 at 7:05 pm
My aunt is self-funding in a nursing home. I was told she should get the nursing allowance, but it could take a couple months. This was five months ago. When I ask, I'm told it's nothing to do with the nursing home, they just have to wait for assessors to visit. How long is usual to wait?
Care to be Different
November 15, 2019 at 9:23 am
Hi Sue - keep pressing the nursing home and if that fails contact the local Clinical Commissioning Group CHC Department. Kind regards
Sandra
March 9, 2019 at 2:59 pm
My mother is in a nursing care home. Has been in this particular one from 23rd November 2018. At end of December I asked if it was possible that she have CHC assessment. She is 88 years old, deteriorating with old age and dementia and is self funding. The manager said she would ask the charge nurse to send of a checklist for the assessment, which he duly showed me and did on 2nd January 2019. A meeting was arranged for two weeks later of which I was invited to attend with the charge nurse, assessing nurse and social worker.
It was decided that my Mum did not qualify for Continuing Health Care at this stage, but did qualify for Funded Nursing Care (FNC). A letter was sent to my Mum at the Care Home which was shown to me - explaining that the weekly FNC of £158.16 would be paid directly to the Care Home from the NHS Local Authority on behalf of the Clinical Commissioning Group.
I understood that this would be deducted from the weekly fees my Mum pays, but have been told by the administrator and manager that this is not the case - this is totally separate, and the manager said that the fees would be higher to pay if this not the case. As this funding came into effect from 2nd January, the letter advising dated 5th February, why then were the fees not higher in the first place when the first invoice was submitted, or at least from 23rd November - Mums admission date up until 2nd January.
I think the care homes - being a money-making business now, take whatever they can if they can get away with it. And if people are paying their own fees privately, they obtain more money, so effectively fleece old and vulnerable people and their families indirectly.
I would welcome any feed back on this.
Care to be Different
March 10, 2019 at 11:06 am
https://caretobedifferent.co.uk/funded-nursing-care-refunds/?fbclid=IwAR0r_WTUd_vm9nT9ZHb9pIDEeBPEzlyCbWGnhb52z3iYWH1GDSdcUnddFP0
Julie Biddlecombe
March 10, 2019 at 10:55 am
I had the same problem my mother was in a care home / nursing for 8 year fully funded on a peg with no quality of life. She has passed now bless her she received the FNC which I feel should have been deducted , I got in touch with Ombudsman to no avail. Everything today is a business what you have said is right targeting the elderly for money - it couldn't
get any worse plus the quality of care seems to be going down hill .
karen stone
May 27, 2018 at 3:47 pm
My Mother was diagnosed with Alzheimers in 2016. Initially, she lived at home with support of carers but, had to go into a dementia care, care home permanently in October 2017 (Her care home costs are self funded, as we sold her house around the time we moved her to the care home). Throughout, we have had great difficulty understanding what benefits she was entitled to and her Local Authority has been far from helpful. We did manage to get her the minimum attendance allowance (£55 pw)and are wondering whether we should apply for the high amount (£85 pw). However, we have just read about the NHS Registered Nursing Care Contribution and wondered whether she would be entitled to claim this amount £156 pw). Any help would be appreciated.
Keith Barker
March 9, 2018 at 10:29 am
My wife and I are executors to my wife's late cousin, who suffered a dense stroke in March 2012. She was admitted to hospital and prior to her discharge was assessed per the Checklist for NHS Continuing Healthcare (CHC) but was deemed ineligible. She was assessed by Social Services who recommended she be admitted to a higher rate residential placement as she was unable to care for herself as she lived alone. At no stage was she assessed for NHS Funded Nursing Care (FNC). The deceased was self funding. She was partially paralysed and had other health issues. My wife and I arranged for her admittance to a registered Nursing Home on 1st May 2012, where she remained, her health deteriorating until her death in March 2013. My wife and I have been pursuing a retrospective claim for NHS CHC since. The matter has been referred to the Ombudsman twice due to delays by the local CCG. We finally managed to have a full retrospective review of NHS CHC involving a Needs Portrayal Document and Decision Support Tool. Throughout the process we have stressed that in the event of the deceased not being eligible for NHS CHC then she should have a retrospective review of FNC. The Nursing Home admitted she would have qualified. We have now been advised by the local CCG that the deceased did not qualify for NHS CHC (although her scores were significantly higher than hitherto). The CCG claim it cannot conduct a retrospective review of NHS FNC quoting the policies contained in the National Framework. However, paragraph 34 of that document provides space for the Multidisciplinary team/CCG to comment on this aspect. The deceased was denied the right of an assessment for FNC. May I please seek your views on this matter? Thank you.
Christine Gilkes
March 6, 2018 at 3:57 pm
My aunt has been turned down for NHS Continuing Healthcare, but letter says she would be eligible to get Funded Nursing Care. Will I need to apply for this or will she get it automatically?
Nick
February 19, 2018 at 5:36 pm
We are paying my mothers care home fees privately (the amount from day one was accommodation AND nursing) and since she has been awarded Funded Nursing Care, the care home has refused to reduce the weekly rate; the level of nursing required has not changed from day one. The local CCG cannot/will not get involved with the care home, because we are paying ‘privately’; all agencies seem to be of the opinion this should be deducted, CareWatch, the CCG, Care Quality Commission (CQC), AgeUK. We have instructed a solicitor who specialises in Care Home issues, however the care home owner has not replied after 3 months. She is paying the correct local rate (over £850) weekly as before. The home is also in Special measures now and we are moving her urgently, but do we have, or is there any recourse to this company, and more over similar homes are suggesting that this is tantamount to Finiancial abuse which seems quite worrying! Is there no overriding body to stop this? For info the CQC and the CCG have taken specific details, but how can this be always be answered that as you are self funders we cannot get involved? It seems worrying that the owner seems to be able to do this. We have advised a solicitor, and thus will be moving her as the trust is completely broken, but could you recommend any recourse or further help?
Jo
February 20, 2018 at 2:45 pm
Nick - I have had exactly the same experience and no matter which way I turn there seems to be no help available. Self funded care home residents are on their own and sometimes charged more than state funded residents. If you have any luck with your solicitor please post here - it will give us hope!
Rday
February 13, 2018 at 5:00 pm
Are you saying that if a person is receiving Nursing care in a Dementia care home ,you are still eligible for Attendance Allowance?
Angela Sherman
February 14, 2018 at 12:29 pm
Attendance Allowance ceases if you receive full NHS Continuing Healthcare, but if the home is receiving FNC on your behalf you can still apply for Attendance Allowance. You may find some of the discussion on this page helpful too: https://caretobedifferent.co.uk/nhs-continuing-healthcare-and-state-benefits/
Julie
December 8, 2017 at 10:53 pm
Julie my mother receives Funded Nursing Care (FNC) .l have looked on her contract and it's does not mention if the county council nursing home includes the FNC or deducts it, would there be a possibility of reclaiming the Funds for the FNC if not mentioned on the contract. Many thanks .
Lori
November 6, 2017 at 2:36 pm
I'm really confused about all the aspects of assessment and funding and how they should be applied to my father. Thank god for this website!!!
My dad had a stroke and lost his mobility on the left side, he does seem to be making slow and steady progress though when he gets physio, which was few and far in between sessions at the hospital.
Anyhow he was discharged into a care home a couple of days ago and I was talking to the administrator of the home today who was very helpful and told me that he had been assessed by the local authority and that he, under Funded Nursing Care, was being charged £136.60 per week, that he has to pay this weekly and this can last up to 8 weeks when it will be reviewed and if he's likely to be permanent a residential a full assessment of assets would be required.
I'm so confused because everything I have seen says that he should've been assessed for Continuing Healthcare and that I should be kept in the loop, I don't know where this £136 fee has come from and I'm worried there might be a big bill coming that I'm not aware of.
I don't really know why he has to pay anything, he's immobile because of the stroke and has been deemed a risk to go home, it really feels like we've no say in whats happening. He's not aware of being assessed for anything, but he does recall being asked by several people if he owns his own home and I, his daughter being the only next of kin, know nothing about any of it.
What can I do to put my mind at ease that he's been assessed properly and fairly?
Angela Sherman
November 9, 2017 at 7:44 pm
Thanks for your kind feedback on the website, Lori.
JULIE MILLINGTON
October 3, 2017 at 8:15 pm
Hello i am in the same position about Funded Nursing Care. The care home have not reduced this funding off the fee for the room. We did not realise they were paying this money until recently and the paperwork came to light when my mother in law passed away. We asked to see the contract and was presented with a contract which had not been signed by anyone. I was a counter signature on my mother in law's account and when the home presented me with there bill i payed it. Surely any funding is paid towards the individual not a gift to the care home.
Kind Regards
Julie
sara
August 25, 2017 at 5:09 am
Hi my father is currently in a care home and he has a state pension and private pension which comes to nearly £800 per month, so the care home takes all this to apparently pay it all towards his care, (is this right?) also he is meant to get a weekly allowance but he never has!
Also he has been in and out of hospital in the last 3 months, twice with phemonia , so does he still have to pay his care fees as hes been in hospital for the best part of 3 months? And should he still get his weekly allowance,(not that they give it to him)
also after having his assessments done in hospital they think he needs nursing care now, so does he still have to pay for this?
Also while being in care he has become an ampute of his leg, does he get any kind of disability allowance?
Thank you.
Rachel Bates
May 26, 2017 at 7:59 am
Hi, I'm a deputy for my grandma who is in a nursing home. She is awarded Funded Nursing Care (FNC) but the home are only deducting £112 off her fees. I have questioned this and they have said it's so they don't have to increase care costs ( I think). I'm really confused as most things I've read suggest that FNC should be deducted from the fee. I've never signed a contract with them as I refused because they sent one that was left blank in the fees section. Is there any way I can get them to agree to take the current FNC rate of £155.05 off the fee rather than £112? Thanks
Jo
April 29, 2017 at 9:19 am
Hi
My mother is self-funding her care in a nursing home. She has Alzheimers and was admitted to the home with a high level of nursing needs that are now being well managed and have reduced. Funded Nursing Care (FNC) was not applied for until over a year after her admission. At the time of her admission we signed a contract that included payment for nursing care. She has now been awarded FNC but her fees have not been reduced, in fact they have increased. I am contesting this with the nursing home but need some clarification.
Is FNC awarded to the person or the nursing home? I can find plenty of evidence to support the fact that the payment is made to the nursing home but need to know if it is awarded to the self -funding individual. If this is the case please could you point me to the relevant document that confirms this? Many thanks
Gloria
November 21, 2016 at 3:44 pm
My 96 year old mother-in-law was awarded FNC at £156.25 weekly but received a reduction of £112 as the care home says the increases in costs have meant they keep the remaining balance for themselves.
Angela Sherman
December 1, 2016 at 6:59 pm
Gloria - the FNC payment goes directly to the care home, rather than to your mother-in-law, and depending on how your mother-in-law's care home contract is written, it may or may not reduce her care fees. The actions of the care home do sound rather cynical in your case though.
Helen
April 14, 2016 at 5:37 pm
My mother has been awarded Funded Nursing Care (FNC); she was not eligible for Continuing Healthcare funding (CHC). On discharge from hospital we placed her in a care home that provided nursing care. She is self funding and the terms of the care home are that she pays for the care home and the nursing element of £112 per week goes straight to the home, no reduction in fees for mother. Whilst it seems sad that she gets no reduction for the nursing element that the NHS are paying, the fact is she isn't even getting any particular benefit from being in a nursing home as opposed to a care home. She had pressure sores when first in hospital but these where healed before she was discharged, but after a week at the home the sores were back and appear to be getting worse. Can we move my mother to an ordinary care home, or indeed arrange 24 hour live in care at her own home? I appreciate that she would no doubt lose the FNC nursing funding but in actual fact it does nothing at all to help her - seems to me the NHS is wasting its money. The homes in our area that provide nursing care are very basic and I think she would be looked after better elsewhere. Can we just move her elsewhere, or even take her home with privately arranged care?
Angela Sherman
April 17, 2016 at 7:12 am
It's correct that the Funded Nursing Care (FNC) payment goes directly to the nursing home. Whether or not your mother sees a reduction in her care fees can depend on how your contract is written. If the care fees quoted are exclusive of any FNC payment, then care homes will argue that the FNC payment is to cover their own additional nursing care. If the care home contract quotes the care fees as inclusive of the payment, then any FNC payment made to the care home should be deducted from your mother's fees. See also my response to your comment on this page: http://caretobedifferent.co.uk/paying-care-home-fees/nhs-continuing-healthcare/
Andrew
March 23, 2016 at 10:22 am
I have read many of the articles on your excellent site, as my mother-in-law is about to be assessed for CHC. In relation to the legal precedents such as Coughlan, what I don't quite get is how the distinction between CHC and FNC is drawn. Coughlan states that the NHS should fully fund a person's care unless nursing services are incidental to the provision of accommodation; if that is the law, it appears almost all residents of care homes with nursing care onsite should be in receipt of CHC. Yet, as I saw commented on a different article, almost none are. My MIL was receiving a funded care package at home (4 visits daily) until January when she was admitted to hospital. She is now in a (nursing) care home on a temporary respite, expected to be made permanent. If she didn't need the extra nursing, she would be back in her own house, so why should she have to pay for 'accommodation' that is only required because of her increased healthcare needs?
I realise the CHC Checklist is used to make a decision on 'eligibility'. I guess what I am asking is, can the NHS meet their legal responsibilities for funding care by providing FNC only?
Many thanks
Angela Sherman
March 31, 2016 at 3:51 pm
Thanks for your comment, Andrew. Your conclusion that almost all residents of nursing homes should be in receipt of CHC is similar to the opinion expressed by the judge in the Coughlan case. The existence of FNC is, in many people's views, an indication that nursing care is needed - and yet this 'layer' of (frankly inadequate) funding prevents many people formally qualifying for full CHC. A person in receipt of FNC is deemed to have primarily social care needs. You may find this article of interest: http://caretobedifferent.co.uk/difference-between-a-healthcare-need-and-a-social-care-need/ (Note: the Checklist does not indicate eligibility; it is simply stage one of the process - and determines whether or not a person will continue to stage two. It is at stage two, the full assessment, that an eligibility decision is made: http://caretobedifferent.co.uk/what-are-the-different-stages-of-nhs-continuing-care-assessment-and-appeal/)
Chantal
July 12, 2015 at 8:48 pm
FNC: in spite of us saying to the nursing home that the fees our friend for whom we have POA should reflect the fact that they are going to be in receipt of FNC for her nursing care, they still deny and say it is for them and cannot be deducted from our friend's fees. They are adamant insaying that CQC told them they keep the money and don't have to reduce our friend's fees. We don't know what to do. Please some help as our 98 year old friend has dementia and needs all the help she can get. DEMENTIA is after all a disease, but everybody seems to wash their hands.
Angela Sherman
October 27, 2015 at 1:14 pm
Hi Chantal. Sorry for the late reply. It also depends on how the care home contract is written. This may help: http://caretobedifferent.co.uk/how-is-registered-nursing-care-contribution-rncc-assessed/
Nicola James
June 5, 2015 at 1:01 am
Funded Nursing Care. I understand that this can only be paid directly to a care home that provides nursing care. However, does a qualifying person have to be resident, or can this payment be used to fund or partly fund, day care respite in a nursing home?
Angela Sherman
July 2, 2015 at 8:50 am
You're correct that it's paid directly to a nursing care home. It's awarded only after an assessment for Continuing Healthcare, which is for people who need full time care. Page 36 of the National Framework may help regarding respite care: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/213137/National-Framework-for-NHS-CHC-NHS-FNC-Nov-2012.pdf
FNC is only provided if you need nursing care – and if you’re in a care home that can provide nursing care.
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